Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X)

If you like this diary, please recommend it!

There's a lot of people pissing and moaning about the alleged flip-flop on the part of Senator Barack Obama regarding his opting out of public funds for the General Election.

Now, I am all for holding Obama's feet to the fire when the criticism is warranted (such as in the case of Telco Immunity), but the amount of concern trolling going on in certain circles is simply astounding. With all the hand-wringing going on you'd think that Obama just announced that he was going to take Joe Lieberman as his running mate and run on a platform of expanding the Patriot Act for another 20 years.

I think most people are smart enough to figure out what these people's motives are, but just in case anyone here is actually buying into the faux outrage being expressed by a small but vocal group of community members here at MyDD, I will attempt to set the record straight....

Obama hasn't flipped on Public Funds.

"If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly-financed general election," - Barack Obama, November 2007

Obama said from the beginning that he would attempt to work out an agreement with the GOP nominee to ensure that outside groups (527's) wouldn't destroy the nature of a public-funded campaign, thus preserving a publicly-financed general election. When 527 groups are already on record as saying that they will spend millions on McCain's behalf and on the flip-side, Obama has requested that groups like MoveOn do NOT spend on his behalf, then it's obvious to anyone but a fucking McCain Troll that McLame was NOT willing to enter any such agreement.

"We have no doubt there will be a robust effort by 527s to paint Obama in the way his opponents would like the country to see him," - Robert Gibbs, Obama Campaign spokesperson

Therefore rather than enter into the GE with two hands tied behind his back, Obama decided to forgo public funds, because at the end of the day, the only person that would have benefited from Obama accepting public funds is John McCain.

This decision enables Obama to compete in traditionally "red" states such as Colorado, Virginia and North Carolina.

This is not a reversal of position. Senator Obama never "promised" to use public funds in the General Election. Never. His position was to pursue an agreement with the GOP nominee. The agreement could not be reached.

If the concern trolls around here were as concerned with winning in November as they are with nursing their fragile and battered egos, then they would surely realize that.

Alas, the modus operandi of the concerned folk around here is, I believe, to take the "sheen" off of Obama. To make him out to be "just another politician". And to what end? So they can say "I told you so". It's a self-fulfilling prophesy that is being perpetuated only by those who are either:

- Still mad that "their" candidate did not win the nomination

- McCain supporters posing as concerned Democrats

The facts are clear. Obama did not reverse his position, as his stated position was never a promise to accept public funds.

UPDATE: This diary is now on the Recommended List. Thanks to everyone who helped get it up there for more people to see! Here is a quote from the full answer Sen. Obama gave when asked about accepting public funds in Nov of 2007, which I believe helps flesh out the details of what kind of "agreement" Obama was talking about:
"My plan requires both major party candidates to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election." - Sen. Barack Obama, Nov. 2007

UPDATE x2: Here's a cartoon that was posted to my diary (cross-posted at DKos) by community member Lava20, which I thought was very fitting for the subject matter at hand:



Display:


Tips, Flames, Recs (2.00 / 37)


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 11:41:44 AM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 3)

Enough with the spin..............


"Do you know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?"
by RedstateLib on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 11:43:48 AM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 10)

Yeah, how about that. Enough with spinning a statement taht pledges to "work fopr an agreement with the GOP nominee" into a "promise" to accept public funds.

You must be pretty dizzy.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 11:44:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Spin? ROTFLMAO I LOVE this diary! (2.00 / 2)

YOu? Not so much but hey run on back over to Red State or the genetically unclean at Hillary44 and I'm sure inbetween their meds they will welcome you!


by Grissom1001 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:28:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 14)

Oh, that's a shame. I'm with you on the substance, but I love this phony outrage. Reminds me of the primary wars long ago. Ah. Those were the days. You could make a reasonable Obama comment and within seconds get trolled. Nobody cares any more.


by duende on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 11:50:38 AM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 8)

Ha! I love it.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 11:52:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 13)

Sure they care. They care so much that they must post diary after diary to express their deep, grave concern over everything Obama says or does. This is not because they're anti-Obama Don't-Call-Me-A-Trolls...it's because they care. About us.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:31:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 6)

I especially love it when they care enough to attack us in said diaries.  And then they sympathetically follow us from diary to diary with their concern.  I know it makes me feel really special.


by Tenafly Viper on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:37:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 6)

You're dead right. I feel like writing a diary. I FEEL SO SPECIAL: MORE CONCERN PLEASE.

The fact that the trolls are out in force about this and FISA makes me realise that they're running scared. Both campaign finance and FISA were republican traps awaiting any democratic nominee. Shame it has to be this way, but let's get a president and congress that will change this f**ked up system.

The more concern they have the merrier I am.


by duende on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 6)

The best concern I have seen lately is that they want to make sure eveyone's voice is heard, so that civil debate can ensue, and to accomplish this magnificient feat of 1st Amendment protection they tell you to shut up because you are a taliban robot.  They do it out of love,  sweet sweet ironic love.


by KLRinLA on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:31:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 5)

And when you say "what the fuck is wrong with you?!?"

They get the vapors and say "Is this the change we've been hearing about?!?! That doesnt sound very hopeful!!"

Makes me want to put my head through the wall...


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 5)

Yes, and they think they are winning that way.  I think their goals are two tiered. 1) sow real division.  That doesn't seem to work anymore around here.  The only ones arguing now are supporters vs. "supporters".  I don't ever see any of our friends with differnt views engaging or supporting these bs diaries. Or, if they do, it is usually qualified (i.e., "I agree with that point but why did you connect it that?").

But, there is fallback #2.  Keep us occupied diluting the smears which serves a purpose because it stops diarists from concentrating on writing solid substantive diaries, like ones about how bad McCain's tax policies suck.

I think we should refuse to engage (just leave fail pics), I know it's fun to crush their poorly based talking points, but 20 fail pics can do the same in a lot less time (may be an old game plan actually, but I am sick of seeing a particular diarist get 160 comments to everyone of his POS diaries).   Of course if some tripe makes it to the Rec List, then obviously we don't want visitors here to get confused and think this is a fake Demcoratic site


by KLRinLA on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:31:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 4)

I agree with you 100%.

You can tell the difference between someone who has a legitimate disagreement with something OBama has said or done, and someone who is looking for something to complain about with every action and word of Obama's. And the people who engage (myself included) do not make the situation any better. But at the same time, sometimes you just can't let their phony bullshit stand without calling it out - lest a new visitor here sees the troll remarks and actually believes there may be some legitimacy to them since no one responded.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:34:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 1)

Agreed.  I just repsonded to some troll in another diary after typing my previous post, hard to take my own advice!


by KLRinLA on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:08:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (none / 0)

I feel so unloved. I never get followed :o(

Or have I....


Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 03:21:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 2)

Sorry.  I must have missed the part where Obama "aggressively pursued an agreement with the Republican nominee."  Would you like to share the details with us of how and when he aggressively pursued such an agreement?


Jim Martin for Senate!
by markjay on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 11:56:32 AM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 12)

The Obama campaign has been pursuing an agreement w/ McCain to get him to swear off 527 money and the McCain campaign has refused.

McCain's buddy Joe Lieberman is on the board for one of the largest GOP 527 groups.

Obama's full statement, when asked in November of last year about accepting public funds, included the following line:

"My plan requires both major party candidates to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election.

Obama's position is, and always has been clear.

McCains unwillingness to refuse 527 assistance has been just as clear.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:03:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (none / 0)

The Obama lawyers and McCain lawyers did sit down for a meeting about this subject, and it was the inconclusiveness of that meeting that Obama cites as his reason for opting out.


unapologetic Obama supporter
by dantes on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:13:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (1.66 / 3)

To abandon something after a single inconclusive meeting between lawyers does not, in my opinion, represent aggressive pursuit of an objective.  Does it represent that in your opinion?


Jim Martin for Senate!
by markjay on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 4)

In the interest of winning, and also in the interest of not letting McCain run the clock out on this issue, I believe expediency was called for when it came to deciding whether or not to accept public funds.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:14:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (1.33 / 3)

I have mixed feelings about it.  As a strategy to win the election, yes, it's great, and I guess when it comes down to things that's probably what's most important.

However, fighting the old corrupt "money-talks" way of doing things in Washington is really Obama's signature issue.  And rather than pushing forward public financing, he has taken the most decisive step in decades to undermine it.  It makes you wonder what he stands for.


Jim Martin for Senate!
by markjay on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:00:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yup...Because we know (2.00 / 1)

That all of Obama's money - you know the cash from 1.5 million donors - comes from fat cats.

/snark


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 10:08:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (none / 0)

Uprated not because I agree with the comment, but because it didn't deserve a tr.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 12:19:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 2)

It does if it's clear that the whole thing is BS. As the commenter above pointed out, while these meetings were taking place, McCain was sending Joe Lieberman to start a 527 that directly targeted Obama and the Democratic party in general. One started by Joe Lieberman.

There are negotiations and then there are "negotiations". People are opposed to even sitting down at the table with Iran because they say it won't do any damn good. Well, sitting down with McCain's people didn't do any damn good either, but they tried.

It is absolutely, 100% worth noting that whatever you think of John McCain, he is NOT the one running his show. I think far less of those people.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 06:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who cares? (2.00 / 1)

I would've questioned my judgment about him had he chosen to sheath one of his greatest weapons. Dems have the chance to run the table, and to pass up that opportunity to play by rules that the other party would never observe is inane. Don't you think that if McSame had the ability to raise the sort of money Obama does that he wouldn't have said a word? Of course you do.


by Poor Yorick on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (none / 0)

Uprated because even though I disagree with the comment I don't think it deserves a tr.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 12:21:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How about here: (none / 0)

www.dailyhowler.com:

Presumably, Obama will gain an advantage over McCain by making this decision. But in current discussions of this matter, an earlier fact has rarely been noted; Obama gained an advantage over Clinton during the primaries by taking his previous stand. All during 2007, those "normally sympathetic editorialists" compared Obama favorably to Clinton because he was taking a high-minded stand--and because she wouldn't follow. Let us stress: This wasn't a giant part of the coverage, but we think it's worth noting. For simplicity, we'll stick with the work of the Washington Post, though similar invidious comparisons were being rattled elsewhere.

more......


by suzieg on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:48:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 1)

I'm pretty sure it went out the window when McCain illegally violated the financing rules.


by ProgressiveDL on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 08:03:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Now, I am all for holding Obama's feet (1.37 / 8)

 to the fire when the criticism is warranted . . . "
Who gets to decide what's warranted?
Who gets to be judge and jury?
When you agree with me, it's warranted?  When you disagree with me, you're a troll?
How about just respecting free speech and the free marketplace of ideas?

John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 11:57:34 AM EST

Re: "Now, I am all for holding Obama's feet (2.00 / 7)

How about when I lay out a whole set of information the proves the concern regarding public funds is unwarranted?

The fact is that Obama never made any promise of any kind to accept public funds. He only promised to pursue an agreement with the GOP nominee.

But alas, some people, such as yourself, will find cause for "concern" even when there is none.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:04:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Now, I am all for holding Obama's feet (2.00 / 6)

How about if you have a legitimate criticism you set it forth backed with facts, you might get a better response.  


by KLRinLA on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:13:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Now, I am all for holding Obama's feet (2.00 / 7)

But you have no ideas, just repug taking points and an M.O. to cause divisions.


by venician on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:15:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Trolling for dollars (2.00 / 2)

Poor kos, he's feeling persecuted! Oh does kos need a blankie? Should we all gather around and give you a virtual hug? No one understands his pain and how it feels to troll for McSame. It's not easy being green.


by venician on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:22:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You speak, of course, not of the kossack (none / 0)

but of she - kosnomore the indignant?


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You speak, of course, not of the kossack (2.00 / 1)

Yes I meant kosnomore, who I didn't know was female.


by venician on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Now, I am all for holding Obama's feet (2.00 / 1)

Y'know, I thought you were a troll for all of about two hours. People who actually look can verify that. I thought you were a troll, I watched what you said, I realized you weren't. So I left you alone after that, because I thought you were fairly sincere. I wish other people would do that.

You got marked down four times for asking to utilize free speech. That's just godawful.

If we're conversing with Democrats, people who aren't simply here to bash Obama and the other people on the site, can we not give them the benefit of the doubt? I think Obama himself would really disapprove of this sort of thing.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 06:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The key is YOU READ my stuff, (2.00 / 1)

you didn't just go "him bad, me TR" like some thug.
It's all about the insecure who don't trust in their own ability to argue their beliefs convincingly.  So, they just try to shut you down and shut you up.  Frankly, who cares about 3 or 4 self appointed ideological cops?  
John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 09:41:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Now, I am all for holding Obama's feet (none / 0)

I hate to say it, but he's a troll.

You should have seen the last diary he just wrote this morning about Obama supporters.  They yanked it within minutes.


by hello world on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 08:22:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Now, I am all for holding Obama's feet (none / 0)

That's what gets people in trouble. They don't understand why it's grossly offensive to call people cult followers, naive, bullies, etc.

I can't totally blame them, because there ARE a lot of people here that are harsh, but you've gotta look for the forest, not the trees.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:12:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 1)

Can we help the media stop manufacturing sensationalized and often speculative,frenzied bullshit?


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 11:59:31 AM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 12)

Misrepresenting Obama's positions is part of an ongoing effort to sow confusion, dampen enthusiasm for our candidate, and cause people to doubt their commitment to his campaign.

This seems to be an obvious avenue for McCain ops to take on the blogs, hoping to fissure Obama's softer support, particularly among those who may be less informed or less likely to fact-check.

The ultimate goal is to siphon votes to McCain or, failing that, to discourage enough Democrats to stay home rather than vote for Obama. Of course, the puma circle is playing the same game, which should tell you something.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:04:28 PM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 5)

This is exactly why we need to push back against these types of posts. At least that way people who are reading these posts for the first time will get a more rounded view of the issues. Pushing back against these posts makes them far less effective. That's why you see so much whining about that from the group that writes these diaries and comments. They hate being challenged to back up their posts.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:40:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 1)

The nail has been struck squarely on the head.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:41:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Looks like a flipity-flop to me (1.71 / 7)

"Senator John McCain joined Senator Barack Obama on Thursday in promising to accept a novel fund-raising truce if each man wins his party's presidential nomination.

The promises by Mr. McCain, Republican of Arizona, and Mr. Obama, Democrat of Illinois, are an effort to resuscitate part of the ailing public financing system for presidential campaigns

In every election since Watergate, candidates have received limited sums of taxpayer money on the condition that they abstain from raising or spending any more. But this year, the leading candidates are all sidestepping the system in a competition to raise far more in private donations, more than $500 million each, according to most projections, compared with $150 million in potential public financing."

March 2, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/02/us/pol itics/02fec.html?n=Top%2FReference%2FTim es%20Topics%2FPeople%2FK%2FKirkpatrick%2 C%20David%20D.


by Chelsea in 2020 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:15:02 PM EST

well, if the NYT (2.00 / 2)

uses the magic word, it must be true!


by JJE on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:19:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The NYT was just one of many sources (1.66 / 3)

"Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain pledged to accept public financing of the 2008 presidential election if they win the nominations of their parties and their opponents agree to do the same.

The two U.S. senators reacted yesterday to a ruling by the U.S. Federal Election Commission that candidates can solicit donations for a general campaign and still qualify for a public grant by returning the money later. Obama, who requested the opinion, said he will keep the funds in a separate account. "
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2 0601103&sid=a13PlJXInKPQ&refer=u s

"Washington - The Federal Election Commission has unanimously approved a request that it hopes will be the first step toward revitalizing public financing of presidential campaigns.

The panel acted on a request by Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., who wants to be able to stockpile private donations but then rely on public financing for the general election if he is the Democratic presidential nominee and his Republican opponent agrees to do the same. If he opted for the public financing, he would then return the private money to donors. "
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_5 335076


by Chelsea in 2020 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:30:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You miss the point (2.00 / 6)

just because the NYT characterizes it as a pledge or promise to accept public finding, doesn't make it so.  It was actually an agreement to agree that fell apart because conditions precedent were not met.


by JJE on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:36:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You miss the point (2.00 / 2)

Midwest Democracy Network Questionnaire

Question 1-B:   (With Obama's answers)

If you are nominated for President in 2008 and ypur major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public funding system?

Obama checked yes.

Yes                        No

Comments (please limit to 250 words or less).

"In February 2007, I proposed a novel way to preserve the strength of the public financing system in the 2008 election. My plan requires both major party candidates to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election. My proposal followed announcements by some presidential candidates that they would forgo public financing so they could raise unlimited funds in the general election. The Federal Election Commission ruled the proposal legal, and Senator John McCain (R-AZ) has already pledged to accept this fundraising pledge. If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."

Barack Obama

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2008/02/the_obama_pledge.html

AND

"After telling the press in Feb. 2007 that Obama, if nominated, would "aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election"--language that Obama himself echoed nine months later in the MDN survey and reinforced by telling Tim Russert that he would personally sit down with McCain to hammer out a deal"

http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stump er/archive/2008/06/19/the-problem-with-o bama-s-public-financing-acrobatics.aspx


by jrole on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:51:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You miss the point (2.00 / 5)

And Obama's people have tried reaching a deal with McCain, and McCain did not agree to the terms. The terms were pretty simple, use your influence as the GOP nominee to dissuade the 527's. We all know McCain (or Obama) can't legally force the 527's to withhold the attacks, but if they were to speak out against those 527s, one would think that their influence would go a long way.

Obama has publicly asked MoveOn to stand down. McCain has not done that with any of the many, many corporate funded, multi-million dollar 527's that support his candidacy.

Therefore, Obama was not able to get the agreement he wanted from McCain and rightly chose to forgo public funds.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:43:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In all seriousness, Obama didn't try very hard (none / 0)

and to argue otherwise is disingenious.  Frankly, Obama's been telegraphing that he'd opt out of public financing for several months now (heck, I assumed back in March he'd do so during the general).

Is he going back on his word?  Yes he is, although one can engage in Clintonesque word parsing to say otherwise.  Is he doing so because of those terrible Republican 527's?  Guess what, there are 527's on the Democratic side of the ledger, too, and they may very well outspend the Republican ones this cycle.  But having said that...

In a perfect world, is what Obama did "wrong"?  Yeah, I guess so.  But like anything one does in a political campaign, one has to measure the costs and benefits.  The cost is that it makes Obama look bad to the kind of wonks who care about this stuff and are following it closely in June, and who haven't made their minds up.  Well, once we get past that .01% of the voting public, it also gives the Republicans some fodder for an attack ad questioning Obama's trustworthiness or whatever.  Well heck, they were going to do that anyway, and a campaign finance issue of this sort is hardly one that reaches out and grabs the average Joe (or Joan).

OTOH, the benefit is that Obama will likely raise AT LEAST $100 MILLION MORE than McCain will have access to for the GE.  That's an AWFULLY big benefit.

Does it mean that Obama is less-than-perfect and that he may make some sacrifices for political expediency?  Yes, it's true.  He's not Gandhi, he's not some wide-eyed idealist who will never ever go back on his word.

But I don't have a huge problem with that, and if he really were THAT much of an idealist, he never would have made it this far, anyway.  I mean, really folks, the conservative estimates are that he could raise $200 mil for the general election.  "Sure, no problem, I'll just turn my back $100+ million because of comments I made back in November".  And to hear "well, that proves he's 'just like everyone else', so much for 'hope' and 'change'" from the same sort of folks who've made muckraking and rule-bending (if not breaking) into a fine art, from the people who brought you K Street and other abominations, well, let's just say that I'm not overly concerned what they think.

No, Obama is not some perfect Idealist who walks on water and has taken vows of poverty and non-violence and whatnot.  He's a politician, and yes, sometimes that means he'll shade meanings or make attacks that aren't 100% fair or distort his opponent's position.

But really, calling him out for not giving up $100+ million in GE money?  I'd like to meet the politician who is willing to do that, in either party.  Is my opinion of Obama lowered a little by this.  Yeah, a little.  But not much.


by synchronicity on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:34:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like a flipity-flop to me (2.00 / 4)

Yeah, "promises" is the NYT's word...no Obama's.  Just like "boon," a few months back, was a journalist's word and not Clinton's.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:20:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like a flipity-flop to me (2.00 / 5)

Clesea, Chelsea, Chelsea. NYT characterized it as a promise, just as CNN is now saying Obama broke his "promise". However, Obama's statements regarding Public Funds never, ever included any promise to accept them.

All he promised was to pursue an agreement that would include shutting 527's out of the equation. McCain did not agree to that provision, therefore Obama forgoes public funds.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so... (2.00 / 7)

when a third party states you made a promise... it doesn't matter if you never made any such pact yourself? Damn, the media IS powerful.


by Casuist on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:33:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like a flipity-flop to me (none / 0)

I'll give you oral credit for using sources to back up your impression of a flip flop.  That unfortuntately has not been used as much to back up criticism of Obama lately.  


by KLRinLA on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like a flipity-flop to me (2.00 / 3)

So now you're openly advocating for McSame?


by venician on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:18:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Looks like a Republican to me. n/t (2.00 / 2)


by spunkmeyer on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice faux concern and sophistry... (2.00 / 5)

For those who have true concern about public financing, we know that the biggest problem is the 527 groups.  They are the ones who ruined Kerry's campaign in 2004.

When a repug agrees to public financing, he does it because he knows he can make up the difference in his true source of financing--the 527's.  They don't have to uphold any of the financing laws and they can create completely false ad campaigns which the republican nominee will say that they can't do anything about because they can't control the message.  Which is bullshit.

So here we have the difference between true public financing with Obama, small donations coming from real voters.  Or the BS McCain public financing--wanting to give the appearance of being for public financing while allowing the big dog 527's (one of which, Lieberman is involved with) to raise as much money as possible to unfairly attack the Democratic nominee.  And he can just sit on the sidelines and watch saying he has no part of it.


by Tenafly Viper on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:50:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey it's a free country with freedom of expression (2.00 / 8)

He has the right to raise his own money as long as he does it within the rules of the game.   His money helped him bury Hillary Clinton.   I wasn't happy about that, but I sure will be happy if it helps him bury John McPain.


by activatedbybush on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:41:44 PM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 9)

You did a good job of making your point.  I hadn't followed the whole hullabaloo very closely prior to this.

I think your assessment and conclusions are spot on.  Thanks.


"If you don't care about everybody, you don't care about anybody." --Ethan Mordden
by prodigal on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:51:30 PM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 4)

Thanks for reading and commenting.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:22:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (1.20 / 15)


He's free to lie about being a liberal when he's not.  Just don't expect us to call it "Hope" as he dodges and weaves and flops back to his opportunism and Midwestern mushy Left-centrism.

Btw, his electoral map looks remarkably similar to the Kerry/Gore map.  All this "Change" is looking like a 49-48-3 election outcome.


by killjoy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:24:04 PM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 7)

You are a truly persuasive person.  Thank you.  I now see the world as you do, and recant all prior heresy.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:39:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (1.00 / 5)


Hey, keep up the True Believing.  It never leads to any disappointments, provided you always lower the bar far enough!
by killjoy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:46:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 2)

Beliefs go both ways, buddy boy. Your belief in Obama being some sort of false prophet is just as faith-based as any hard-core Obama supporter. It's politics, dude. Suck it up or shut it up.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:00:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What fantasy world are you living in? (2.00 / 7)

Next time, try actually reading the news before you open your mouth, rocket scientist.

Obama 317   McCain 194   Ties 27


by spunkmeyer on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:50:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What fantasy world are you living in? (1.25 / 4)


That's some pretty wishful misanalysis of Undecided voters.
by killjoy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:59:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And you're a pretty wishful idiot. (2.00 / 8)

electoral-vote.com
Obama 317
McCain 194
Ties 27

Five Thirty Eight
Obama 340
McCain 198

Real Clear Politics
Obama 306
McCain 232

Try trolling over at RedState next time.  It's your kind of joint.


by spunkmeyer on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:06:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you're a pretty wishful idiot. (none / 0)

Dude, Killjoy is a troll.  

We shouldn't feed them, because they will grow up to be neo-cons, and we don't want to allow any more of these out into the world.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 05:15:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 1)

THEN DON"T CALL IT GODDAMN HOPE!

Jesus, shut UP about this bullshit. If you don't think he represents hope, then feel free to keep it to yourself. Guess what? I don't either! I think he's a politician! But I don't feel the need to act like I'm better than everyone else. Jerk.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 06:57:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (1.00 / 2)


Look at yourself, buddy.
by killjoy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:20:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 2)

Point taken. But still, I'm sick of hearing that "hope" shit. NOBODY here is like that except for maybe one or two people. The rest of us see him as just a very talented politician with an ability to make liberal politics mainstream.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:39:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (none / 0)


Well, no.  He's not much of a liberal, he's more moderate and/or center-Left, and that's the objection.  Brilliant or not is not the issue.

Like all these idiot rating abusers, who obvious are no liberals.  That's "normal" militant Leftist behavior- whoever's not in agreement with you is propping the Right, obviously.


by killjoy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (none / 0)

When it's convenient to say so, he has "the most liberal record in the Senate".  Other times he's a flip-flopping centrist.

Your poor ratings are entirely within the rules.  "Being a republican troll" is grounds for a TR, and openly and unreservedly bashing our nominee qualifies.  


by semiquaver on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:50:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (none / 0)

Any proof of the centrist charge?


by ProgressiveDL on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 08:08:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 1)

According to politico, an anti-Obama 527 was just registered and apparently they "want to wage a campaign against senator Obama on truths and factual information."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 608/A_new_antiObama_527.html#comments


This administration is not sinking. This administration is soaring! If anything, they are rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg!
by venavena on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:49:29 PM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 2)

12 Describe the purpose of the organization

Swift Boat Obama believes that there is enough information on senator Obama to prove that he is unfit to be President of the United States. We will make sure that we check
the validity of all our claims before we will repeat the information, we want to wage a campaign against senator Obama on truths and factual information.

I think Senator should be capitalized LOL.


This administration is not sinking. This administration is soaring! If anything, they are rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg!
by venavena on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:51:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 1)

You and Obama must be sore from contorting yourself into such knots.

I don't think he's the devil for doing it, but it's pretty obvious that McCain would have agreed to limit himself to accepting public financing in the general if Obama had.  That's usually what the cash-strapped candidate wants to do, and Obama's motivation to maintain his cash advantage is no big secret.

The 527s are a separate issue, of course, that you and Obama are using to distract from the truth.

I understand why Obama is doing this, but I wish I could say I'm surprised about his lack of principles on this issue.


by leisure on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:33:59 PM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 1)

What part of Obama's statement regarding 527's do you fail to comprehend?

"My plan requires both major party candidates to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election." - Sen. Barack Obama, Nov. 2007

They aren't a separate issue, and saying they are doesn't make it so. 527's can have just as much, or more impact on the airwaves than the candidate themselves. Just ask John Kerry about the 527 Swiftboaters that attacked him.

Obama has been very clear. He would not willingly put himself (and our country's future) at a disadvantage by accepting public funds UNLESS McCain agreed to rein in the 527 groups.

Obama has already asked the biggest left wing 527 (MoveOn) to refrain from spending on his behalf. McCain has done no such thing.

But hey, your concern is noted.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 4)

Oh ferchrissakes. I just fed a troll whose last diary was titled "Standing Ovation for Alegre".

Shoot me now.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 1)

Please don't debate the actual issue at hand.  

It's so much more satisfying to go after me personally.


by leisure on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 4)

Personally?? You your opinion of the PUMA troll that you posted on a forum for all the denizens of teh intertubes to see is now a "personal" matter???

LMFAO! That was rich. Mojo'd for being so goddammed creatively ridiculous.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (none / 0)

You're trying to discredit my opinion on this issue based on my opinion on other issues.

That's not arguing on the merits.  It's personal.


by leisure on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 3)

No, I'm discrediting your opinion based on your opinion. Novel concept, eh?

Or did you fail to realize that I did actually answer your comment directly and then later chastised myself for bothering to feed a troll (which I;m doing again unfortunately).

But I digress. I did address your rant.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:05:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 3)

It's a known fact that trolls will only respond to the last 4 sentences of any posting. Don't let it bother you.  Sometimes they're so good it's hard to differentiate it from actual concern until you see their history. =)


by Tenafly Viper on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:59:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 1)

Neither candidate has any power to "rein in" the 527 groups, which by law must act independently from the campaigns.

Any promise predicated on that argument was destined to fail.


by leisure on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:49:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (none / 0)

And any presidential candidate who does not have the leadership skills to influence the interest groups that support him is clearly lacking when it comes to leadership skills.

and regardless, Mr (or Miss) "Debate the Issue at Hand", the issue is this: Did Obama break a promise to accept Public Funds for the GE?

And the answer, as evidenced by the facts (I know, leisure, 'facts?!?!? look away! look away!!'), is that Obama could not break a promise that he never made.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:53:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (none / 0)

John Edwards refused to call off the 527s because he believed trying to influence them was against the law.  It had nothing to do with his leadership skills-- that was his integrity talking.

You may be correct that Obama's "promise" was implied rather than stated outright, so technically no promise was broken.

I personally wish my nominee would hold himself to higher standard.


by leisure on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:05:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 2)

I wish your nominee wouldn't joke about bombing Iran or lie about strolling freely through a Baghdad market.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:12:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (none / 0)

I'm voting for Barack Obama, but that won't stop me from pointing out his mistakes and flaws, either.

Public pressure is often the only way to force our leaders to shape up.

The outrage expressed here and elsewhere over the horrible FISA bill, for example, is our best leverage to defeat it.

And no, I don't expect Hillary Clinton would have had a better position on this issue.  John Edwards was the one I trusted to stand up and fight for the Constitution.


by leisure on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:19:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 1)

The same John Edwards that voted for the Patriot Act? Guess again.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 1)

But if McCain just publicly asked really nicely,  I bet he could get them to stop.  After all Obama did it with moveon.


by Tenafly Viper on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:02:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 2)

Not only that, but even if they didnt listen, every time one of those 527s surrogates was on TV, the questions would be all about "why are you running ads that your nominee has denounced?".

Just McCain saying he doesnt want those 527's acting on his behalf would create an enormous amount of pressure on those groups, and would undercut any credibility they might otherwise be afforded.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 1)

Obama asked the 527s to stay out, and he's succeeded so far. Obama knows McCain can't rein in the groups, but he can TRY.

Here's what I want you to do. State here, unequivocally, that you truly believe both of the following:

A) McCain had no influence on Joe Lieberman to stop his 527
B) McCain had no influence on Joe Lieberman setting up his 527

I'll wait.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:06:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 1)

Obama doesn't have a cash advantage.  He's down $50 million to the combined McCain campaign and the RNC.  Of course McCain would accept public funding on those terms, just like only an idiot from the Democratic side would do so.


by rfahey22 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:22:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 2)

Yes. McCain would have disbanded Lieberman's 527, told Freedom Watch to shut their doors, and told everyone in his party that those things would not be tolerated.

THAT is what Obama did, numbnuts. McCain did nothing of the sort.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough (none / 0)

527s are completely independent, i.e. both candidates will disavow any association with these "slimeball politics"

That is how 527s work.  They get down and dirty while the candidate stays above the fray. Neither Obama nor McCain has any control over the 527s other than to "disavow" (wink, wink) such tactics


by WolfmanJack on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:05:13 PM EST

Re: Enough (2.00 / 2)

Which of course explains why MoveOn has said that they will follow Obama's wishes and not run ads on his behalf. Right? Right?!?


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:06:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough (2.00 / 1)

John,

I agree with your original post and laud you for keeping up the good fight here, but a point of clarity:

As far as I can tell, MoveOn has not pledged not to run ads for Obama. What they've pledged to do is not to reopen their 527 status. I'm no expert on campaign finance, but I do know that this will drastically reduce the money they will be able to raise.

But with the money they do raise, they will still be advocating on Obama's behalf.

Here's a pretty succinct rundown:
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/06/moveon_to_close_its_527. php


by vadasz on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough (none / 0)

Thanks for the clarification. I should have looked that up so my response would have been more accurate.

But my premise is still correct. Obama did pressure a 527 (MoveOn) to not act on his behalf. And lo and behold, the pressure resulted in a positive response.

I think if MoveOn is going to spend on Obama's behalf while relying on small donations, much like Obama, then that's a whole different thing than having corporate-funded 527's acting on your behalf.

Do you agree?


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:09:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough (none / 0)

Yes, I do agree. And I think it's a good move.

I only pointed it out because with repubs and trolls, any excuse to divert the argument down a semantic blind path is like Christmas morning to them.


by vadasz on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:22:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (1.50 / 2)

John Edwards refused to call off the 527s because he believed trying to influence them was against the law.  It had nothing to do with his leadership skills-- that was his integrity talking.

You may be correct that Obama's "promise" was implied rather than stated outright, so technically no promise was broken.

I personally wish my nominee would hold himself to higher standard.


by leisure on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:05:19 PM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 2)

A higher standard? How is not wanting to get slimeballed by 527's without being able to answer them back in full force a low standard?

What a lame comment.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:07:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (UPDATED 2X) (2.00 / 1)

John, maybe you should include mention of the fact that Obama is actually facing a huge money disparity when you include the RNC among fundraising totals.  People are under the impression that Obama currently enjoys a financial advantage, when in fact he is still at a large financial disadvantage.


by rfahey22 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:24:12 PM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 1)

it's funny that manufactured outrage was first a charge against Barack, for naming what he thinks others really mean and then getting all het up about it, inspiring outrage, over made up stuff. what goes around sure comes around.  There is no reason to all of a sudden notice that Barack goes back on his word some of the time, it's who he is, but he's our candidate now, and it would be a good deed for him to cool it and show he stands for something. I worry about getting out of Iraq, this 99% the same as Hillary worries me, he's said we'll get out as carefully as we went in carelessly but he also says that he'll start troop removal. What will he actually do? Is anyone brave enough to ask?  


what a relief
by anna shane on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:48:44 PM EST

Re: Enough With the Phony Outrage (2.00 / 2)

Off topic comments notwithstanding, it is not fair to expect Obama to commit to an exact plan of withdrawal 7 months before he is sworn in as President.

As Obama has said, and with which I agree, is that he will withdraw our troops from Iraq and leave a small residual force behind. He can't say exactly what day or what time this will take place until he is President for one main reason:

He is not privy to the specific logistical information required to make such a firm announcement. He has to get the Joint Chiefs together (which he said he'd do on day one) in order to work with them on the smartest and safest plan of withdrawal. Right now, the Joint Chiefs aren't going to meet with the nominee, no matter how confident we are that he will win.

I'd love for Obama to come out and say that "yes, I'll begin a full withdrawal on day one and within 3 months all troops, except residual forces, will be out", but that would be a naive statement to make without working out the logistics with the Joint Chiefs first. It wouldn't be a very presidential thing to do, IMO.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:02:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]